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Topic: Glenn Beck = someone I don't like =P  (Read 1883 times)
« on: July 17, 2008, 01:47:16 PM »
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philbertk
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Apparently, according to Glenn Beck, you should not wear Che Guevara t-shirts b/c that's what you would wear to show terrorists that you are one of them:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/17/beck.che.guevara/index.html

Quote from: Glenn 'I don't like him' Beck
NEW YORK (CNN) -- What T-shirt should you wear when you need to blend in with terrorists? Incredibly, we have an answer to that question.

Robin Meade conducted an exclusive interview that aired this past weekend on Headline News with Thomas Howes, Keith Stansell and Marc Gonsalves, three of the 15 now-former captives of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. It is a leftist terror group that has specialized in kidnapping during its war with the Colombian state and capitalism in general.

After their plane crashed, the captives spent five torturous years hoping to see their families again, at times being locked in boxes at night around rats, pigs and bats. Sometimes they had weights chained around their neck and were led around at gunpoint with a dog leash.

Upon finally escaping, Keith Stansell emotionally described the moment he laid eyes on his 5-year-old twins for the first time.

It took a rescue by the Colombian Army to reunite them with freedom and probably save their lives. The army posed as terrorists, persuading FARC to turn the prisoners over to them, saving 15 innocent victims of the brutal terrorism that has ripped Colombia apart for years.

But how did this happen? How did FARC get fooled?

Colombian Army members infiltrated the highest levels of the organization, telling FARC they were going to take the hostages to meet an "international mission." They landed in a helicopter and spent 22 minutes on the ground collecting the captives and speaking in code to one another before taking off and letting the victims (who included a former Colombian presidential candidate) know that they were safe.

So, what is the uniform of choice when fooling terrorists in Colombia?

Sure, there's plenty of talk of one intelligence team member, nervous about the mission, who wore a Red Cross symbol against orders. But other accounts confirm the use of something you can probably pick up at any mall: a Che Guevara T-shirt.

That's right, the same T-shirts you see Hollywood celebrities, starving pseudo-artists and confused hipster teens wearing around local coffee shops. To all those who decide that you want to be coffee house communist-chic, remember this: When you are wearing a Che T-shirt, you're wearing the same shirt that makes terrorists believe you're just one of the gang. I hope that latte is tasty.

How Che became such a revered superhero of the hard-core left is laughable. First of all, he wasn't even a good revolutionary. He failed in his attempt at world revolution almost as badly as communism has failed in the places it was actually tried.

"This is a history of a failure" is how he himself described his efforts in the Congo. He was killed in Bolivia, trying to fire up another failure of a war. Earlier, he even managed to drop his gun and shoot himself in the face.

But more important than his incompetence is the fact that the man was a mass killer. Hundreds were reportedly executed on his watch, and that doesn't include the deaths incurred in the wars he was constantly trying to start. He described his maniacal lust for war in his writings, saying he savored "the acrid smell of gunpowder and blood of the enemy's death." How this guy is a hero to the anti-war crowd is truly perplexing.

I should also point out what seemingly gets eliminated from the Hollywood movies attempting to glorify him: his bouts with racism. When describing the differences in the strife between "Europeans" and "the black," the supposedly progressive-minded Che wrote, "their different attitudes of life separate them completely: the black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead."

Ohhhhh, so the "European" is a hard worker while "the black" is a fanciful drunk. Now I understand the difference.

I wonder if that quote would inspire the volunteer office of Barack Obama's Houston supporters to remove their Che flag. After it was spotted on the wall in a local news video, Obama's campaign, far from a haven for right-wing nut jobs, went out of its way to make sure everyone knew that it had nothing to do with the flag and didn't approve of its use. If Che were such a hero, why would that be necessary?

Revisionist history's fusion with fashion sense isn't exactly new, but its popularity seems to be growing. When actress Cameron Diaz showed up in Peru, she thought she had a trendy bag that might garner some jealous stares. People were staring, sure, but for all the wrong reasons.

The bag, purchased in China, featured a red star and the words "Serve the people" on it. The problem? That was Mao Zedong's most famous political slogan, and it stirred up memories of the Maoist Shining Path insurgency, which, according to the BBC, was responsible for 70,000 deaths in Peru during the '80s and '90s. Diaz apologized later for "inadvertently" offending anyone.

It's been five years since the story of convicted abortion clinic bomber and Olympic park bomber Eric Rudolph led the news. As he was evading police capture for months, stories of townspeople donning "Run Rudolph Run" bumper stickers were correctly greeted with horrified disdain.

With the exception of the fact that Che killed a lot more people, what's the difference? You shouldn't be wearing an "I heart abortion clinic bombers" T-shirt, and if you have any respect for humanity, you shouldn't be wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt, either.

Perhaps I should cash in on a Che T-shirt featuring his clichéd image too. Except this time, instead of glorifying him, it could specifically be designed to point out his pathetic and brutal legacy.

Honestly, though, I'm afraid I'd be sued. The communist revolutionary who dedicated his life to fight capitalism has now become nothing more than a piece of merchandise. Lesson learned: In the end, capitalism always wins.

When your only option is a Che shirt, maybe it's just better to go topless.


« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 01:13:41 AM by philbertk » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 04:04:41 PM »
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Soooo..... did I miss something, or how exactly Glenn Beck a douchebag?

He reported, from hearing from someone else, from hearing from a soldier himself that he infiltrated the FARC simply by wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt.

I also think that the people who wear the t-shirts have absolutely no idea what they truly signify, otherwise they'd probably throw them off in disgust.

Great article though, I just don't understand the topic name at all.
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 01:11:22 AM »
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philbertk
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lol, ok so maybe my reaction was a bit strong.  I'll change the topic name   Tounge

but the reason for my vehement response was one line in particular:

Quote
To all those who decide that you want to be coffee house communist-chic, remember this: When you are wearing a Che T-shirt, you're wearing the same shirt that makes terrorists believe you're just one of the gang. I hope that latte is tasty.

I felt that the tone of this one-liner was present throughout the article.

Before going any further, let's be clear on a few points:

1. I'm not a Che Guevara fan.
2. I don't sympathize with Che Guevara fans, Che's philosophies, or Che's actions.
3. I don't wear Che Guevara t-shirts.
4. I don't like or dislike people who do wear Che t-shirts.
5. I am not a "coffeehouse communist-chic hipster" (wtf is that anyway); I don't even like coffee.

I agree with Glenn Beck that people who wear Che shirts probably have no idea who Che Guevara was, what he stood for, what he did, etc.  And I agree that if people know or find out what Che's philosophies were, what his actions were, etc., and continue to wear that shirt in order to show their sympathy for such thoughts and actions, then yes, that is deplorable.

But there is a huge difference between displaying a bumper sticker that sympathizes with Eric Rudolph's actions ("Run Rudolph Run"--see Beck's example towards the end) and putting a bumper sticker on your car that expresses your sympathy for a broader concept--"Life is precious" bumper stickers, for example.  If I wore a shirt that said "Che Guevara is my role model!", then yes, that is analogous to displaying a "Run Rudolph Run" bumper sticker.  But wearing a t-shirt with Che's image doesn't necessarily symbolize sympathy for the man or his actions.  The image of Che's face has come to symbolize a much broader and abstract idea.  As one of the commentors on the CNN article put it, "Che is nothing more than an icon of revolution."  Beck apparently doesn't realize or accept this.  To many people, that particular image has become just iconic art on a t-shirt, no different than the Abercrombie or American Eagle or GAP symbols on those t-shirts.  The Che t-shirts just happen to be worn by individuals that Glenn Beck seems to have a problem with...after all, the same argument that Beck makes regarding Che t-shirts could be make regarding Abercrombie/American Eagle t-shirts or Nike shoes.  There was a lot of controversy swirling around Abercrombie and American Eagle b/c of their discriminatory employment practices.  Does wearing either of those shirts mean I am endorsing their practices?  Similarly, Nike took a lot of criticism for the the terrible conditions that Nike workers in Chinese factories had to endure?  Does wearing Nike shoes mean I support such human rights abuses?  Why didn't Glenn Beck rail against people wearing those products?  What about those Fidel Castro-type caps that are becoming all the rage?  Does wearing one mean that I sympathize with the Castro regime?  Does it make me a Communist?

Ok, so all these points above, regardless of whether they are "correct" or not, reflect my opinions and points of disagreement with Glenn Beck.  So why did I have such a strong reaction and end up calling him a douchebag?

Well, multiple reasons, not all of which are good I'm afraid.

First, I try not to judge people, and I dislike people who do (so I guess you could call me a hypocrite for judging people who judge people, but that's fine, one's gotta draw the line somewhere).  I have no problem with Glenn Beck telling people: "Hey, you are wearing a shirt whose symbolism perhaps you don't understand, but here's what the guy did, so by wearing it, you are endorsing what he did."  But I do have a problem with Glenn Beck doing so in a snarky, mean manner using lots of stereotypes (seriously, how many Hollywood celebrities can he actually name that he has seen wearing Che t-shirts?? And since when was wearing a Che t-shirt limited to Hollywood celebrities, "pseudo-starving artists, and confused hipster teens"??  If I go out and buy a Che t-shirt tomorrow, does that make me a coffeehouse communist-chic hipster??).  The commentor I quoted above made a good point regarding this, so I'll post his comment in full:

"Che is nothing more than an icon of revolution, which many people at different times and for different reasons find appealing. The fatal flaw of all revolutions is that because they begin with unrest, they inevitably replace one despot with another.

The issue is not Che or T shirts, but the fascination with revolution, as those on the far left call it, or "regime change," as those on the far right call it. Any rapid, unnatural change comes with a high cost, most often in human lives.

What everyone wants (left, right and center) is improvement. That's what hope is all about. We want steady movement toward the optimum. The good news is that what we want is actually occurring right now. That's what evolution is: A slow, steady, methodical change that brings about constant improvement. It's not a philosophy, or a religion, or political movement; it's the direction of nature. It has no figurehead and no heroes, so there is no T shirt for this.

Since we're all involved in evolution, maybe it's a smart idea to lighten up on other people (and their T shirts) and focus on our own individual improvement."

The last line is really what I was trying to get at.  Is Glenn Beck seriously going to get on other people for wearing Che t-shirts?


Second, I think the headline on the CNN frontpage also helped set me off: "Beck: Che Guevara shirts fit for terrorists."  Now, I realize that, taken logically, the sentence simply states: this t-shirt was good enough to infiltrate a group of terrorists (ASIDE: btw, I don't know the details, but I have serious doubts about Beck's insinuation that the Red Cross insignia wasn't as significant as a Che t-shirt in infiltrating the camp--all the more so b/c Beck is so vague about it: "other accounts confirm" that someone was wearing that shirt, not that it had any impact!).  Anyway, back on point--I realize that the headline is another way of saying that the shirt was enough to get into the camp, but to the average reader, that's not what it says.  An average mind will equate "Che t-shirt fit for terrorists" with "if you wear a Che t-shirt, you are a terrorist sympathizer."  I think this country has had enough of this kind of rhetoric over the past eight years.

Third, I'll admit, it was an over-reaction.  Partly, I was upset b/c CNN, which I used to defend in arguments about FoxNews vs. CNN, has steadily been moving towards a "we're the anti-FoxNews" direction by focusing more on Opinions and Commentary and less on just reporting the news.  I hate seeing headlines that aren't actually headlines but simply the titles of another Opinion article by Lou Dobbs or Martin or Navarette.

Fourth, it was the tone of the article--I'll even concede that perhaps it was simply the perceived tone.

As I said above, I'll change the topic name.


« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 01:14:11 AM by philbertk » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 10:27:01 AM »
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 Tounge.

Ahh, phil it was more in jest than anything.

Yea, his tone certainly seemed rather snarky to me, as well. I feel that a lot of what Glenn Beck does is snarky in tone. He's just snarky (I wanted to use that word a third time b/c I like it so much). However, as much as I may dislike his tone and, to an extent, his personality, I can't help but concede that he makes very good points, usually rather often in his commentary.


"Che is nothing more than an icon of revolution, which many people at different times and for different reasons find appealing. The fatal flaw of all revolutions is that because they begin with unrest, they inevitably replace one despot with another.

The issue is not Che or T shirts, but the fascination with revolution, as those on the far left call it, or "regime change," as those on the far right call it. Any rapid, unnatural change comes with a high cost, most often in human lives.

What everyone wants (left, right and center) is improvement. That's what hope is all about. We want steady movement toward the optimum. The good news is that what we want is actually occurring right now. That's what evolution is: A slow, steady, methodical change that brings about constant improvement. It's not a philosophy, or a religion, or political movement; it's the direction of nature. It has no figurehead and no heroes, so there is no T shirt for this.

Sounds dangerously like the heart of (traditional) conservatism to me!
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2008, 10:33:49 AM »
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First, I try not to judge people, and I dislike people who do (so I guess you could call me a hypocrite for judging people who judge people, but that's fine, one's gotta draw the line somewhere).  I have no problem with Glenn Beck telling people: "Hey, you are wearing a shirt whose symbolism perhaps you don't understand, but here's what the guy did, so by wearing it, you are endorsing what he did."  But I do have a problem with Glenn Beck doing so in a snarky, mean manner using lots of stereotypes (seriously, how many Hollywood celebrities can he actually name that he has seen wearing Che t-shirts?? And since when was wearing a Che t-shirt limited to Hollywood celebrities, "pseudo-starving artists, and confused hipster teens"??  If I go out and buy a Che t-shirt tomorrow, does that make me a coffeehouse communist-chic hipster??).  The commentor I quoted above made a good point regarding this, so I'll post his comment in full:

"Che is nothing more than an icon of revolution, which many people at different times and for different reasons find appealing. The fatal flaw of all revolutions is that because they begin with unrest, they inevitably replace one despot with another.

Second, I think the headline on the CNN frontpage also helped set me off: "Beck: Che Guevara shirts fit for terrorists."  Now, I realize that, taken logically, the sentence simply states: this t-shirt was good enough to infiltrate a group of terrorists (ASIDE: btw, I don't know the details, but I have serious doubts about Beck's insinuation that the Red Cross insignia wasn't as significant as a Che t-shirt in infiltrating the camp--all the more so b/c Beck is so vague about it: "other accounts confirm" that someone was wearing that shirt, not that it had any impact!).  Anyway, back on point--I realize that the headline is another way of saying that the shirt was enough to get into the camp, but to the average reader, that's not what it says.  An average mind will equate "Che t-shirt fit for terrorists" with "if you wear a Che t-shirt, you are a terrorist sympathizer."  I think this country has had enough of this kind of rhetoric over the past eight years.

Third, I'll admit, it was an over-reaction.  Partly, I was upset b/c CNN, which I used to defend in arguments about FoxNews vs. CNN, has steadily been moving towards a "we're the anti-FoxNews" direction by focusing more on Opinions and Commentary and less on just reporting the news.  I hate seeing headlines that aren't actually headlines but simply the titles of another Opinion article by Lou Dobbs or Martin or Navarette.

I don't think that it matters that you change the topic name.  You're asking a political commentator not to comment on, or criticize a cultural fad, which in this case also crosses over into the political.  I don't think that you can argue FoxNews just reports the news.  Have you ever watched the O'Reilly Factor?  I do believe that show host does express opinion and criticisms.  Without criticisms, Glenn Beck wouldn't make for good TV.  People watch these shows for those criticisms.  He was making a point, and it's one thing to make it a point to not judge people personally, but I think this is something that's fair game for discussion and debate. 

Also, you're opposed to the exploitation of stereotypes?  You do, or at least have done mock trial, right?  I consider the BBC to be something that excludes judgement, but it's so less entertaining.
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 10:31:00 AM »
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Quote
1. I'm not a Che Guevara fan.
2. I don't sympathize with Che Guevara fans, Che's philosophies, or Che's actions.
3. I don't wear Che Guevara t-shirts.
4. I don't like or dislike people who do wear Che t-shirts.
5. I am not a "coffeehouse communist-chic hipster" (wtf is that anyway); I don't even like coffee.

You don't like coffee?

Commie.
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 10:39:31 AM »
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You don't like coffee?

Commie.

For the record, Commies like coffee. How else would we be able to divide everything we own up evenly at 6am in the morning, every morning? I speak from experience.
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2008, 05:05:18 PM »
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For the record, Commies like coffee. How else would we be able to divide everything we own up evenly at 6am in the morning, every morning? I speak from experience.

hmmmm..... I knew something was different about you
 In Love
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2008, 05:41:45 PM »
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This coming from a perjurer who idolizes a movie character who relishes PINK, had PINK in her sig., and even chose one of the few smileys in pink.  In Love
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2008, 01:07:32 PM »
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This coming from a perjurer who idolizes a movie character who relishes PINK, had PINK in her sig., and even chose one of the few smileys in pink.  In Love

I chose the pink smiley because I heart MT4e
 In Love

all other statements are only partially true Wink
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2008, 01:40:12 PM »
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I chose the pink smiley because I heart MT4e
 In Love

all other statements are only partially true Wink

 In Love !!! Feelings are mutual!
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2008, 04:59:45 PM »
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/23/beck.obama.media/index.html

I thought you would all like to read this
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2008, 12:01:35 PM »
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/23/beck.obama.media/index.html

I thought you would all like to read this
Again, Glen Beck has blessed CNN with a hard-hitting article, tantamount to an 8-year-old  jumping up and down and flailing its arms screaming, "Me me Me me!!!" It's time for everybody to say, and admit what is plainly obvious: John McCain is NOT interesting. If he were, reporters would be following him. If he were, many Americans would decry the bias media coverage (which, no doubt, exists). But the only people that are decrying it are Glen Beck and Fox & Co.

If the GOP wants their nominee to get some face time, they should have put their chips behind a candidate that was any one of the following: 1)energetic, 2)charismatic, 3)well-spoken, 4) all of the above
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 12:25:14 PM »
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Again, Glen Beck has blessed CNN with a hard-hitting article, tantamount to an 8-year-old  jumping up and down and flailing its arms screaming, "Me me Me me!!!" It's time for everybody to say, and admit what is plainly obvious: John McCain is NOT interesting. If he were, reporters would be following him. If he were, many Americans would decry the bias media coverage (which, no doubt, exists). But the only people that are decrying it are Glen Beck and Fox & Co.

If the GOP wants their nominee to get some face time, they should have put their chips behind a candidate that was any one of the following: 1)energetic, 2)charismatic, 3)well-spoken, 4) all of the above



What's right isn't always interesting.
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 12:39:29 PM »
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quote author=Legally Blonde link=topic=3883.msg168975#msg168975 date=1217262314]

What's right isn't always interesting.
[/quote]

Thata girl!  In Love
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