Author Topic: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008  (Read 5240 times)

mocksluzer

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Here's the link to the cnn.com article:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/30/frank.marijuana/index.html?eref=rss_latest

What do you guys think of this? Good idea? Bad Idea? Long time coming? America's not ready? What are the implications for economics, government bureaucracy, crime rates, federal allocation of resources, social, etc...? Do you care?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 09:15:46 am by mocksluzer »
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phathom

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2008, 09:51:00 am »
I saw this on the news and laughed, very hard. I hate the term "responsible adult" it is so very subjective. So is his opinion on what constitutes medical use.

However, I personally think it should have been legalized a long time ago. We are wasting too many resources putting away people for a drug that is relatively harmless (not to mention the profit that could be made if we standardize the sale and tax it). I can just see the signs at gas stations:

Buy a dime bag and get a free bag of chips and a slurpee!

After saying all that I just must point out that there is no way this will ever be passed. It just wont happen, not for another 10-20 years.
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Golden Skull

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2008, 04:51:55 pm »
As a prosecutor for the Department of Justice I don't really feel that it's my place to take a position on this bill.  I will, however, make a few comments about what I think this would do to enforcement:

I'm not sure how much this bill, if passed, would change enforcement.  First of all it would not affect the states -- by far the biggest source of criminal arrests and prosecutions.  I don't have stats, but I would be very surprised if there are many federal prosecutions of people possessing 100 or fewer grams of marijuana.  Second, even at the state level, this would only affect arrests and prosecutions for small quantities of marijuana.  In many jurisdictions, such crime may not trigger an arrest or a prosecution.  It may be dismissed or it may be sent to a pretrial diversion program.

Also, it is a little misleading to say that possession of marijuana consumes such a large percentage of our resources.  Simple possession of an amount like this is rarely the subject of serious investigation.  Instead, it's the kind of crime that's charged when officers are doing drug interdiction (for example: scoping out an area and arresting drug sellers), when they stop a person or vehicle, get consent to search, and happen to find marijuana, or when they are conducting a search or investigation that happens to turn up pot.  If you're trying to stop street-level drug sales, this law won't change anything: distribution is still a crime, and you often can't tell at the time of the sale whether the person is selling pot or coke.  Similarly, an officer isn't going to stop asking for consent to search or cease making traffic stops: such enforcement techniques could yield harder drugs or weapons.

Also, 100 grams of marijuana is a quantity large enough to be consistent with distribution or intent to distribute (depending on other factors, including the packaging).  You might have 100 grams that you keep at home as a supply, but if you're carrying 100 grams on your person, you may not be just a user.

Finally, legalizing marijuana may have positive effects, but it would be naive to think that would solve much with street crime and street-level drug use. If we legalize pot, we don't provide jobs to the dealers nor do we necessarily provide resources to the addicts. It's possible that, ironically, the largest benefit would accrue to the group that it would seem the legislation is least trying to protect: recreational users who are otherwise economically and socially stable.  But that's just a theory, and I don't have much to back that up.

DesertClassic

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2008, 11:15:54 pm »
Huzzah.....now can we end the war on drugs entirely please?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:40:09 am by DesertClassic »
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Herb

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2008, 08:32:24 am »
Huzzah.....now can we end the war on drugs entirely please?

Baby steps, Jimmy.  Baby steps.

Golden Skull

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2008, 03:00:32 pm »
Huzzah.....now can we end the war on drugs entirely please?

Do you mean decriminalizing drugs entirely, or what?  If so, what makes that a good idea?  Certainly the "war on drugs" hasn't been waged well, but unlike marijuana, I don't believe there's any argument for safe or legitimate use of hard drugs like heroin, cocaine, crack cocaine, methamphetamine, or PCP (to name a few).  I can't see how decriminalizing any of those would be a good thing.

DesertClassic

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 06:38:15 pm »
Well, as a libertarian I am of course in favor of de-criminalizing most if not all drug use.  But I hold few strong opinions in that direction.  Rather, my objection to the War on Drugs is its role in undermining both our civil liberties as well as private property rights.
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mocksluzer

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 08:32:12 am »
As a prosecutor for the Department of Justice I don't really feel that it's my place to take a position on this bill.  I will, however, make a few comments about what I think this would do to enforcement:

I'm not sure how much this bill, if passed, would change enforcement.  First of all it would not affect the states -- by far the biggest source of criminal arrests and prosecutions.  I don't have stats, but I would be very surprised if there are many federal prosecutions of people possessing 100 or fewer grams of marijuana.  Second, even at the state level, this would only affect arrests and prosecutions for small quantities of marijuana.  In many jurisdictions, such crime may not trigger an arrest or a prosecution.  It may be dismissed or it may be sent to a pretrial diversion program.

Does such a bill, if passed (and I understand a big "if"!) hold any sway with state legislators to try to pass similar bills? Is it somehow a state issue in the first place? I thought I heard about a case in CA a couple of years ago where the fed's interceded because of the potential for interstate commerce; how would that affect the enforcement of this bill on the state-level? I'm trying to understand how this bill aims to accomplish anything if most of the action under 100 grams happens at the state level anyway. Is it trying to set some sort of precedent, kinda like a "baby steps" thing?


Finally, legalizing marijuana may have positive effects, but it would be naive to think that would solve much with street crime and street-level drug use. If we legalize pot, we don't provide jobs to the dealers nor do we necessarily provide resources to the addicts. It's possible that, ironically, the largest benefit would accrue to the group that it would seem the legislation is least trying to protect: recreational users who are otherwise economically and socially stable.  But that's just a theory, and I don't have much to back that up.
Another positive effect: people will be nicer! Less crime, more apathetic criminals, etc... Just a theory though.  :)

Also, how would this legislation most benefit recreational users if it doesn't touch state enforcement? I'm utterly confused about this bill now.
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MosDef

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 11:44:11 am »
I learned recently that m0arajuana is the #1 cash crop in the state of Kentucky.  That of course takes into account only what is seized by Kentucky police and uses thier street value estimation.  Just found that interesting. 

phathom

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 12:21:07 pm »
Another positive effect: people will be nicer! Less crime, more apathetic criminals, etc... Just a theory though.  :)

So would prostitution... which should also be legal (IMO)... lets just turn into the Netherlands  :gavel:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 09:42:11 pm by phathom »
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mocksluzer

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2008, 11:25:22 am »
So would prostitution... which should also be legal (IMO)... let just turn into the Netherlands  :gavel:
Second!
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MosDef

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 03:31:34 pm »
Third!  :gavel:

DesertClassic

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2008, 09:46:10 pm »
I want to fourth but can't.

Weed doesn't exploit people (at least not people outside s. america).

Prostitution does.
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mocksluzer

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2009, 01:36:02 pm »
Didn't really expect to see this article on ESPN.com, but it's there. It's an article about the ridiculousness of the uproar over Michael Phelps' bong hit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/090518
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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2009, 01:37:41 am »
I want to fourth but can't.

Weed doesn't exploit people (at least not people outside s. america).

Prostitution does.

Doesn't prostitution exploit more people when its an illegal service? If prostitution were legal, there wouldn't be such a demand for pimps, which are really the ones doing much of the exploiting. Women (and men, and anybody in-between) could run their own buisness without constant fear and need for a 'protector' figure.
Its kind of silly that I could go up to any stranger on the street and give myself away for free, or for a dinner date, but the second money is exchanged the same transaction it is illegal. Why? I feel that exploits me more than making a profit would.
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Bovice

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2009, 12:11:26 pm »
It would be nice if when prostitutes are abused they could actually go to the police for assistance.
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mocksluzer

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 06:43:10 pm »
Check this out:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572912,00.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a4:g4:r1:c0.000000:b0:z5

My comment: She was also known to drink milk on occasion. Maybe that's why she killed those people... Gotta love the logic of MSM.
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Cross Rockstar

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 10:45:59 am »
Almost as good as the article here in Florida a while back about a grandma that grew marijuana to support her gambling habit.

In Limine

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Re: HR-5843: Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 02:34:43 pm »
Almost as good as the article here in Florida a while back about a grandma that grew marijuana to support her gambling habit.

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