Theme's and Theories Graveyard

[Present sense impression]

I really don't understand how people can buy the argument that someone would drive their $105,000 import sports car on a baseball diamond, or on the 18th hole of a golf course. Obviously there are other ways mud can get on a car, but for the purposes of the case, there are really only a few "reasonable" explanations. What it boils down to is that it is going to be difficult to find someone (especially the possibly presumed upper-class business personality of Owens) that would not keep that kind of vehicle in excellent shape. Especially if Malone provides testimony that Owens always took excellent care of his/her vehicles, then is it hard to believe that it was normal for mud to be on that Maserati (especially mud that was linked to the burial site of the victim).

You're assuming a lot here.

Assuming a team called Malone (not necessarily always the case), the "he cleaned his car all the time" argument is still weak.  Yeah, Malone sees him going back into the parking lot to clean the car once, so what? Can we assume from that incident alone that Owens "always kept it in pristine condition?"  As for Malone's statements that, aside from that incident, Owens "always kept it in pristine condition?" Objection, speculation, lack of personal knowledge. Even if the objection falls through, a decent Malone can work out of that on cross.

I do agree with you that the "Owens could've driven it around on a baseball field" argument in a defense closing sounds totally ridiculous, though.  I've heard of at least one team doing this this year, and personally, even though that may be technically plausible, "he could've driven it on a golf course/baseball field" obviously sounds totally ridiculous and imo, takes away from the closer's overall credibility with the jury. In a strictly points sense, omitting that might help a score rather than including it and having the judges tune out the next 35 seconds of your closing while they're lost in thought about why the **** someone would drive their Italian sports car around little league basepaths.

[Mockinfordummies]

You're assuming a lot here.

Assuming a team called Malone (not necessarily always the case), the "he cleaned his car all the time!" argument is still weak.  Yeah, Malone sees him going back into the parking lot to clean the car once, so what? Can we assume from that incident alone that Owens "always kept it in pristine condition?"  Malone's statements that Owens always kept it in pristine condition? Objection, speculation, lack of personal knowledge.

I do agree with you that the "Owens could've driven it around on a baseball field!" argument in a defense closing sounds totally ridiculous, though.  I've heard of a team doing this year, and personally, even though it may be a technically plausible argument, it obviously sounds totally ridiculous and imo, takes away from the closer's overall credibility with the jury. I think a defense closer can find a way to make the mud issue more questionable without specifically saying "he could've driven it around a baseball field"  ...I doubt a lot of teams are actually even saying that though. I think you're assuming a lot.

I agree with the idea that the defense saying that Jackie Owens drove on a baseball field is a crazy idea.  In fact I used that in my closing, but a prosecution one 

[Present sense impression]

I agree with the idea that the defense saying that Jackie Owens drove on a baseball field is a crazy idea.  In fact I used that in my closing, but a prosecution one 

my point exactly, .

[In Limine]

Precisely. The only reason why I mentioned Malone is because in the event that a team actually called that witness, it supports the likelihood that no one in their right mind, (Owens in particular) would drive their sports car extremely dirty. Furthermore, with all the crazy ranting and other nonsense case strategies here on perjuries, I'm glad to see that at least some other people don't believe the argument that the mud "could have came from a baseball field or golf course.", because I've heard it far too many times also.


At a recent invitational, a judge snickered when opposing counsel for the defense when they made that argument. The judge later laughed out loud when opposing counsel also argued for several moments that detective Finch "didn't even give Jackie Owens a snack!!" during  Owens' interrogation. It was one of "those" trials....

[skon]

I really wish we had an idea of how much calcium carbonate was actually found on the car.

How much is 1.4%? I mean, are we talking a few specks of this stuff or a fist-size lump? There's a huge difference.

[calverna]

Actually, the golf courses and baseball fields are relevant because of mud run-off - it rains on a golf course and run-off mud from the course makes it down to a road / whatever and you end up driving through that. It's not necessary to actually drive through the golf course

[ImproperImpeachment]

Actually, the golf courses and baseball fields are relevant because of mud run-off - it rains on a golf course and run-off mud from the course makes it down to a road / whatever and you end up driving through that. It's not necessary to actually drive through the golf course

^^^This.

[Mockinfordummies]

Actually, the golf courses and baseball fields are relevant because of mud run-off - it rains on a golf course and run-off mud from the course makes it down to a road / whatever and you end up driving through that. It's not necessary to actually drive through the golf course

But what about the mud found in the car?  And i felel like the mud run-off wouldn't have created a large enough amount of mud to get stuck in your tires.  In order for mud to get stuck in your tires, you must have literally driven through mud, not run-off

[skon]

But what about the mud found in the car?  And i felel like the mud run-off wouldn't have created a large enough amount of mud to get stuck in your tires.  In order for mud to get stuck in your tires, you must have literally driven through mud, not run-off

Run-off goes everywhere. Rain at the golf course, mud runs off the green, parking lot gets muddy, Maserati drives to the parking lot, Owens steps in it, drives through it, and it dries everywhere. It's not like it was raining chalk -- it was only 1.4%.

Also, Jackie Owens was away for a few days after June 16 and presumably his driver still had keys to the Maserati. Maybe someone took a joyride. I wonder if he'll be the new witness added for nationals.

[KShaw]

Run-off goes everywhere. Rain at the golf course, mud runs off the green, parking lot gets muddy, Maserati drives to the parking lot, Owens steps in it, drives through it, and it dries everywhere. It's not like it was raining chalk -- it was only 1.4%.

Also, Jackie Owens was away for a few days after June 16 and presumably his driver still had keys to the Maserati. Maybe someone took a joyride. I wonder if he'll be the new witness added for nationals.

<Insert "My Cousin Vinny" quote about mud in Mississippi.>

[Were-Lawyer]

I totally had a scoring judge in regionals make the comment about my direct of Lee that we hadn't heard testimony that it had rained in Midlands around the time Lee was investigated, which would make it mud, rather than just dirt.  Whatever, the same judge scored me #1 attorney AND was madly in love with my opening, the theme of which was Jacob Bennett=Julius Caesar and Jackie Owens=Brutus.  Not exactly the most accurate presentation of history/Shakespeare, but we figured it'd that any team that took up their own time to correct our interpretation would be shooting themselves in the foot anyway.

[WolfInWolfsClothing]

Cassius Maxwell?

[mockboxoflove]

I totally had a scoring judge in regionals make the comment about my direct of Lee that we hadn't heard testimony that it had rained in Midlands around the time Lee was investigated, which would make it mud, rather than just dirt.  Whatever, the same judge scored me #1 attorney AND was madly in love with my opening, the theme of which was Jacob Bennett=Julius Caesar and Jackie Owens=Brutus.  Not exactly the most accurate presentation of history/Shakespeare, but we figured it'd that any team that took up their own time to correct our interpretation would be shooting themselves in the foot anyway.

Maybe Owens= Romeo and Grace= Juliett?  I'm thinking poison, lots of candles, a dagger.

[Justin Pues]

this wasnt our theory, but i remember a team tried to pin the murder on Maria(or whatever) Bennett.  It was really...interesting

[Were-Lawyer]

One of our half-serious theme ideas for prosecution before we came up with Caesar was the Wizard of Oz.  Jackie is the Wicked Witch of the West, Jacob is Dorothy, the Dueling Lens deal is the ruby slippers, and Casey is the flying monkeys.