Running list of teams qualifying for ORCs

[TedHoffman]

There are many ways to determine field strength.  It is an extremely difficult job given that AMTA tries to keep regionals, well, regional, and there are many factors to balance.  I respect the relevant committee members very much.
 
I thought this was one of many possible interesting metrics to look at: number of teams in last year's National Championship Tournament Top 10 and Honorable Mention.  I fully embrace that the choice of this metric is influenced by my own biases.
 
Three Top 10 Finishes
Jamaica (Columbia A, NYU A, Penn A)
 
Two Top 10 Finishes
New Haven (George Washington A, Yale A)
Los Angeles (Irvine A, UCLA B)
Orlando (Furman A, Furman B)
Spokane (Stanford A, Cal A)
 
One Top 10 Finish; One Honorable Mention
Chapel Hill (Duke A; Washington and Lee A)
Louisville (EKU A; Tennessee A)
Cincinnati (Miami B; Miami A)
 
One Top 10 Finish
Fresno (UCLA A)
Syracuse (Cornell A)
Baltimore (Richmond A)
Topeka (Iowa A)
Princeton (Georgetown A)
South Bend (Northwood A)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; Three Honorable Mentions
Columbia (Wash U A, Rhodes A, Rhodes B)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; Two Honorable Mentions
Milwaukee (Northwestern B, Northwestern A)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; One Honorable Mention
Providence (Boston University A)
Joliet (Michigan B)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; Zero Honorable Mentions
Davenport
Houston
Superior
Worcester
Birmingham

Isn't this just a simple/crude version of the Bonus Bid Rankings?

[uscmikey]

Travis and I were talking to today... [this is slightly off-topic] we favor a new case at Nationals or ORCS. Although this would probably require pushing ORCS up to give adequate time. The collegiate level is the only level I know that doesn't give a new case. I understand the burden of two cases on the committees and volunteers in those committees (being one of them) but it would make things more interesting. It would also be a better gauge of power/talent then a team that just pillages.. I mean scouts other teams and uses it as their own.

A few years ago, I believe I made a motion that was, what I believed, a fair compromise.  Essentially I wanted to keep most of the facts in the case similar, but change the focus of the case (perhaps a criminal case through regionals, and a civil case for nationals; a guilt/liability phase through regionals, the sentencing/damages phase for nationals; perhaps just change the nature of the charge for nationals).  The new witnesses would be added and existing witness affidavits would change to reflect this new focus.

Essentially, this would make teams have to change what they are doing (and would reward those with better power/talent) without them having to learn an entirely new fact pattern.  I don't know what ever became of this motion, but would be interested to learn what others think of this.  Oh, and I am writing in my own individual capacity and not as a member of the AMTA Board of Directors.

[Rhodes_Strasberg]

There are many ways to determine field strength.  It is an extremely difficult job given that AMTA tries to keep regionals, well, regional, and there are many factors to balance.  I respect the relevant committee members very much.
 
I thought this was one of many possible interesting metrics to look at: number of teams in last year's National Championship Tournament Top 10 and Honorable Mention.  I fully embrace that the choice of this metric is influenced by my own biases.
 
Three Top 10 Finishes
Jamaica (Columbia A, NYU A, Penn A)
 
Two Top 10 Finishes
New Haven (George Washington A, Yale A)
Los Angeles (Irvine A, UCLA B)
Orlando (Furman A, Furman B)
Spokane (Stanford A, Cal A)
 
One Top 10 Finish; One Honorable Mention
Chapel Hill (Duke A; Washington and Lee A)
Louisville (EKU A; Tennessee A)
Cincinnati (Miami B; Miami A)
 
One Top 10 Finish
Fresno (UCLA A)
Syracuse (Cornell A)
Baltimore (Richmond A)
Topeka (Iowa A)
Princeton (Georgetown A)
South Bend (Northwood A)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; Three Honorable Mentions
Columbia (Wash U A, Rhodes A, Rhodes B)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; Two Honorable Mentions
Milwaukee (Northwestern B, Northwestern A)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; One Honorable Mention
Providence (Boston University A)
Joliet (Michigan B)
 
Zero Top 10 Finishes; Zero Honorable Mentions
Davenport
Houston
Superior
Worcester
Birmingham

While compartmentalizing regionals based on last year's national performances has merit, I think your priority of the categories may be off.  For instance, I would (with my own biases in mind) find 0 top 10 with 3 honorable mention to be considerably more formidable than 1 top 10 or even 1 top 10 with 1 honorable mention.

[MiaWUCU]

I never meant to suggest that my metric be the only metric nor did I put thought into ranking my categories.  I think of it as more of a "laugh test," as they say in law school.

Which is to say, we SHOULD use mathematical formulas and rankings to sort out the regions, rather than a qualitative analysis of who should be where.  But when the math is done, it is critical to just look at what you've come up with and ask, "Does that make sense?"

[The Gelf]

At any other tournament perhaps, but it's Jamaica and they're used to New Haven...
 

Actually, the irony is I'm probably FAR more used to Jamaica than New Haven.  I've been to three tournaments at Yale (1 invite in 2003 and regionals the past two years).  If memory serves, I've attended the Jamaica regional (in varying capacities -- coach, cheerleader, judge) every year since 2003.  And yeah, Jamaica time is just downright bad-ass.

[StandardBearer]

anyone care for a potential projection for a White Plains field before the tournaments are run?

[knight_in_shining_armor]

updated with Superior, WI

[iwgbtp]

Here's a running list of the number of teams that each program has qualified out of Regionals. I think it's a good indication of just how deep some programs are, although certainly not the only factor to consider (especially since some big programs only send two teams to Regionals to begin with).

4 Teams
Chicago
Furman
Miami (OH)
Northwestern
UC Irvine
UCLA
University of Georgia
 
3 Teams
Duke
Georgetown
GW
Harvard
Iowa
Maryland
Notre Dame
Penn State

2 Teams
Air Force
Arizona State
Bellarmine
Boston University
Brown
Columbia
Cornell University
Florida
Gonzaga
Houston Baptist
Illinois State
Lewis
Loyola-Chicago
Macalester
Michigan
Northwood
NYU
Ohio State
Pittsburgh
Princeton
Rhodes
St. Olaf
Seton Hall
Stanford
Syracuse
Texas-Austin
Tennessee-Knoxville
Trinity College
UC Berkeley
UCF
USC
UVa
Washington & Lee
Washington-St. Louis
Washington State
Yale

1 Team
Arizona
Boston College
Bowling Green
Brandeis
Buffalo
Cal Poly-Pomona
Cal State-Fresno
Carleton
Carnegie Mellon
Case Western
Cincinnati
Colby
Collin College
Colorado-Colorado Springs
Cornell College
Creighton
Dartmouth
Drake
EKU
Eastern Michigan University
Emory
Hamline
Holy Cross
Howard
Iona
Johns Hopkins
Kansas State
Lafayette
Loras
Memphis
Miami (FL)
Michigan State University
Middle Tennessee State University
Minnesota-Morris
Minnesota-Twin Cities
Mississippi Valley State University
Missouri-Columbia
Missouri-Kansas City
North Central
Redlands
Richmond
Rochester
St. John's
St. Louis
St. Thomas
Sienna
Southern Methodist
Tufts
UAB
UC San Diego
University of Illinois-Chicago
University of North Carolina
University of Pennsylvania
University of South Carolina
Vanderbilt
Villanova
Washington
Wellesley
Wisconsin-Madison
Wisconsin-Superior

[GinDoctor]

Update with this weekends results?

[knight_in_shining_armor]

updated through this weekend.

[JanTheJanitor]

Does this not include Topeka?

[pluto101]

So this is an interesting situation. Five of the teams that earned bids out of Milwaukee CAN'T take the bids.

See here: http://www.collegemocktrial.org/mock/tabulation_files/earned_bids_2-21-10.pdf

Chicago has earned four ORC bids, so they're opting to go to the Greenville, SC and Waukegan, IL ORCs. Northwestern earned four ORC bids, and will be sending two teams to St. Paul. Michigan earned three ORC bids, and will be sending two teams to Waukegan.

So, in the name of keeping the ORCs "competitive", AMTA has decided to send both 8-0 Virginia teams to St. Paul, as well as the 6-1-1 Eastern Kentucky A team, and will be granting only two open bids to St. Paul.

I don't like the idea of this. I don't see how sending teams halfway across the country just so AMTA can avoid five open bids in St. Paul is necessary, especially considering how they will not be doing anything similar at, say, Waukegan, which will have 8 open bid teams and still be competitive.

That being said, all I'll say to Virginia and EKU is welcome to the frozen tundra, I'm looking forward to seeing you guys in action. Bring a coat.

[Quotequeen]

So this is an interesting situation. Five of the teams that earned bids out of Milwaukee CAN'T take the bids.

See here: http://www.collegemocktrial.org/mock/tabulation_files/earned_bids_2-21-10.pdf

Chicago has earned four ORC bids, so they're opting to go to the Greenville, SC and Waukegan, IL ORCs. Northwestern earned four ORC bids, and will be sending two teams to St. Paul. Michigan earned three ORC bids, and will be sending two teams to Waukegan.

So, in the name of keeping the ORCs "competitive", AMTA has decided to send both 8-0 Virginia teams to St. Paul, as well as the 6-1-1 Eastern Kentucky A team, and will be granting only two open bids to St. Paul.

I don't like the idea of this. I don't see how sending teams halfway across the country just so AMTA can avoid five open bids in St. Paul is necessary, especially considering how they will not be doing anything similar at, say, Waukegan, which will have 8 open bid teams and still be competitive.

That being said, all I'll say to Virginia and EKU is welcome to the frozen tundra, I'm looking forward to seeing you guys in action. Bring a coat.

I'm not completely sure which teams you're talking about sending halfway across the country.  Virginia would otherwise have gone to Hamilton, which is pretty far anyway.  I don't believe this was done for the purpose of avoiding 5 open bids in St. Paul.  I am also confident that all of the teams that were switched at this point were switched voluntarily.

[AKM]

FTR, team 1265 UChicago also qualified for Waukegan. I don't think that team made it onto the 7th open bid slot on the first post of this message - only team 1264 is listed.

[Quotequeen]

FTR, team 1265 UChicago also qualified for Waukegan. I don't think that team made it onto the 7th open bid slot on the first post of this message - only team 1264 is listed.

They're listed under Greenville, as they should be.